tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754038974641979372.post5960335823312799690..comments2023-11-03T01:26:28.532-07:00Comments on The Liberal Mormon That Could: Not all blind faith is good.Lisahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10268689890561878413noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754038974641979372.post-78840726068922660302008-10-22T15:34:00.000-07:002008-10-22T15:34:00.000-07:00"My faith would not be shaken from reading a book ..."My faith would not be shaken from reading a book like RSR, it would be a waste of my time."<BR/><BR/>Heather, if you are not afraid of your faith being shaken by the difficult aspects of Joseph Smith's life, then I strongly disagree that reading RSR would be a waste of your time. Besides showing him in a non-superhero light (which makes me admire him all the more), the book actually strengthened my faith in the man in many ways. What he accomplished in his life was nothing short of enormous, miraculous, and enigmatic -- and most Mormons don't even know the half of it because they only have official Church publications to go by. Particularly insightful were the details of the translation of the Book of Mormon and the Plan of Salvation. I'm SO glad that I read the book, not so much for the troubling aspects of his personality, but for the insight I got into his persona and the revelations he received. I have big issues with how he practised polygamy, but his personality and teachings, along with his faults, make him still my all-time favourite Mormon.The Faithful Dissidenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12540938297858510325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754038974641979372.post-42579334685007695392008-10-22T14:52:00.000-07:002008-10-22T14:52:00.000-07:00I understand. I confess I don't clain to understa...I understand. I confess I don't clain to understand how you can feel peace voting no, but I'm not judging you, everyone comes to their own decisions their own ways. I know that their are vandals/theives on both sides, my point was only that you can't say it won't happen either way. As far as the Prophet being "infallable" I don't mean he can't make mistakes. In his personal life maybe he does, I don't know. What I do know is that as far as church affairs and gospel doctrine we WILL NOT be led astray. The Lord won't kill him, he would be removed from his place. My faith would not be shaken from reading a book like RSR, it would be a waste of my time. I would suggest that there are so many things we can do to build and use our faith to positive means, why challenge it, we're going to need it? <BR/><BR/>I think also Lisa that you are incredibly bright, thoughtful, and articulate. I'm sure that coming to this decision was not easy for you, for me their was no decision to make. I do however respect others to vote how they think they should. I'm not a great orator, critical thinker, writer, or anything of the kind, I will leave the critical thinking to you Lisa. You're much better at it than I am. And I wasn't saying that sarcastically. These are just my thoughts, I hope I did not offend.Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05288804721284043813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754038974641979372.post-42934155362912446082008-10-22T09:12:00.000-07:002008-10-22T09:12:00.000-07:00I don't believe it's the right thing to do, though...I don't believe it's the right thing to do, though. Everything in me says its wrong. Do I have slivers of doubt? Eh, not so much anymore now that I've decided.<BR/><BR/>I feel so much more *peace* now that I've made my decision. They say the peace you feel is confirmation - well, I've lived the last little while in a bit of internal turmoil, but no more. I have a confidence and a surety in my own personal decision.<BR/><BR/>Does that mean those who are voting yes are wrong? No! I wouldn't dare suggest it is. But for me, and for many others, the only answer is no. <BR/><BR/>The Church is not always right. The Gospel is, but not the Church. <BR/><BR/>And I would never <I>ever</I> condone those who resort to such barbaric methods of protest. But lets not make ourselves the only martyrs, Heather. I seem to remember a certain Matthew Shepard who died at the hands of some really awful people. Now I am NOT equating our Church with those unbelievably horrible people who killed Matthew Shepard. Not at all. But to suggest that we're all saints in thought and deed just because we're being persecuted is to flatter ourselves. People are persecuted for their varying and opposing beliefs and political stances on a daily basis. <BR/><BR/>I mean, I'm afraid to put a No on 8 sign in my yard. Even if I wasn't afraid, I don't think I would out of sheer respect for my Church. It is the most I can do. But I can only imagine the reactions I'd receive if I did put a sign up.<BR/><BR/>We're not the only ones, but that in no way makes it right or justified.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10268689890561878413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754038974641979372.post-53532126217326090572008-10-22T00:59:00.000-07:002008-10-22T00:59:00.000-07:00"The Church may not be popular with the "politcal ..."The Church may not be popular with the "politcal views of the world" or for that matter, many of it's members, however, it is always right."<BR/><BR/>Ah, but Heather. The Church is not ALWAYS right. The General Authorities opposed the Civil Right's bill in 1964 (which by the way had absolutely no bearing on the priesthood ban), including Apostle Delbert L. Stapley, who called it "vicious legislation." George Romney (father of Mitt) was an avid supporter of black civil rights and he had to endure a lot of pressure and guilt trips from GA's for doing so. I could post the link of the famous letter that Romney received (and ignored), but to be honest, if reading RSR is too much to handle, then the letter would definitely be. It shook me to the core. But in Stapley's defence, before he died, he admitted that he was wrong. And after the fact, several other GA's said that they spoke with "limited understanding" on the issue of race.<BR/><BR/>The Church is not infallible. Neither is the prophet. Is that not true? Do we not always hear that the prophet is only a man and can make mistakes? That he's not like the pope? Ah, but most Mormons will tell you that he CAN'T make mistakes when he is acting as prophet, that he will never lead the Church astray or if he does, he'll be killed. If that is so, then that means he is infallible in exactly the same way as the pope. The pope can make mistakes in anything except when speaking in matters of doctrine and morals to the Catholic Church, in which case he is considered infallible.<BR/><BR/>So which one is it? Is the prophet infallible to Mormons like the pope is to Catholics? Or not? I say no, but almost every Mormon I know will have to answer yes, even though they don't like the word "infallible," when in essence that is exactly what they believe.The Faithful Dissidenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12540938297858510325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754038974641979372.post-83153786879057374512008-10-21T21:46:00.000-07:002008-10-21T21:46:00.000-07:00Alright, I've not read RSR, and because of what ha...Alright, I've not read RSR, and because of what has been said of it on here, I won't be. There are enough things thrown at me in life that would shake my faith, I certainly don't need to expose myself to anything that will shake my foundation of faith. It's not about blind faith or burying our heads in the sand, it's about accepting that some things in this life have not answer, patience is the answer combined with faith. <BR/>Lisa, you mentioned backlash of the anti-prop 8 crowd not gonna happen. At the Oakland temple a huge crowd was protesting as patrons entered the gate. It got so bad it backed up the main exit to go to the temple. People were jumping in front of cars, using horrible language, calling them horrible names and bringing many to tears. They lined the streets leading to the temple and only left after dark. It's already happening. If the Prophet says to devote our time, and means to support prop 8 do you really think that means,"but it's ok if you vote no." No you won't be struck down or excommunicated but should you vote yes, absolutely! Not because the Prophet said so but because it is the right thing to do. If the counsel is to support it then why not start researching why your vote goes against the churches stand. The Church may not be popular with the "politcal views of the world" or for that matter, many of it's members, however, it is always right. I don't say this to be condescending or rude. I don't say this cause contention either. I did not take critical thinking in High School or College. And honestly, I think I'm glad. (Please don't take offense Lisa.) Just my "instincts" kicking in. Now, I'm off to bed.Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05288804721284043813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754038974641979372.post-10801603422460983702008-10-21T00:39:00.000-07:002008-10-21T00:39:00.000-07:00I feel the same way as you do and have written a l...I feel the same way as you do and have written a lot about this on my blog. I've also read "Rough Stone Rolling" and loved it. I have to admit, it shook my world. It was hard to read parts of it, especially the parts about polygamy. So much for the myths of the women outnumbering all the men, or just being the Church's way of taking care of all the spinsters. I was shocked to read that Joseph had taken children (approx 15 years old) to wife, as well as women in their 50's who were already married to other upstanding men in the Church.<BR/><BR/>A fellow blogger was telling me how even in UT, hardly anyone has read RSR. I can't believe that Mormons -- especially those who have access to all this wealth of knowledge -- aren't interested. I think part of it is fear of reading non-official Church material that may not be so flattering (yet true), and fear that once they know, they won't be able to handle it. And actually, I think that's a valid excuse. Sometimes I wonder whether I can handle it myself. And yet I can't stand the feeling of burying my head in the sand. Why should the enemies of the Church know more about it than me?The Faithful Dissidenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12540938297858510325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754038974641979372.post-15785648288287934452008-10-20T20:43:00.000-07:002008-10-20T20:43:00.000-07:00*gasp*You mean you're a *gasp again* SEMINARY teac...*gasp*<BR/><BR/>You mean you're a *gasp again* SEMINARY teacher?<BR/><BR/>If only some on the facebook boards knew...hahahaha<BR/><BR/>That said, thank you :) Flattered!Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10268689890561878413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754038974641979372.post-88964367707213743382008-10-20T20:40:00.000-07:002008-10-20T20:40:00.000-07:00"...because sometimes our faith is only as strong ..."...because sometimes our faith is only as strong as our knowledge."<BR/><BR/>Beautiful! That might go into my seminary lesson tomorrow. :)Nataliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07522500941694896965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754038974641979372.post-74753070113288265672008-10-20T15:52:00.000-07:002008-10-20T15:52:00.000-07:00"If the Church is true, if any doctrine is true, t..."If the Church is true, if any doctrine is true, than we shouldn’t be afraid to explore."<BR/><BR/>What a powerful statement! So simple, and so true. Thanks.Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07026099426503180472noreply@blogger.com